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Dr. Gabor Maté on The Connection Between Stress and Disease
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Aug 15, 2019
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Transcript
00:09
good evening ladies and gentlemen I am
00:14
honored and thrilled to introduce you
00:17
tonight to the renowned physician dr.
00:21
Gabor maté a one of the world’s leading
00:23
experts in trauma child development
00:26
addiction and the relationship between
00:29
stress and disease please give him a
00:31
huge welcome
00:32
[Applause]
00:46
thank you
00:56
thank you very kindly for this welcome
00:58
my thanks to John Gordon and the how to
01:01
Academy and all of you for coming out
01:03
tonight we’re gonna plunge right in I’d
01:06
like to speak to you about 50 minutes to
01:09
an hour and then take some questions so
01:12
the title of this talk is why we get
01:15
sick and really what we’re looking at is
01:19
two questions basically one is what is
01:24
disease number one and number two how do
01:28
we understand the human beings
01:30
relationship to illness which really
01:32
comes through the heart of what is
01:34
humanity really now in our Western
01:37
medicine which I was trained disease is
01:40
seen as a pathological process that
01:43
involves a disorder of cells molecules
01:48
organs and different body systems and so
01:53
we have specialists to deal with every
01:54
system every organ in the body the Jesus
02:00
fish second scene secondly as a fixed
02:02
entity that just exists on its own so we
02:07
talked about I have cancer and the
02:10
assumption is that there’s such a thing
02:11
as cancer then there’s an eye that has
02:14
the cancer but there’s no unity between
02:18
myself in a cancer or I have multiple
02:21
sclerosis and multiple sclerosis has
02:24
certain qualities and certain
02:27
trajectories and certain prognosis
02:31
associated with it and that’s the nature
02:33
of the disease and that’s separate from
02:35
Who I am because I have multiple
02:38
sclerosis but it’s something other than
02:42
me so disease is an entity and thirdly
02:48
Western medicine in which I was trained
02:50
sees illness or the old person is
02:54
somehow a random victim of either
02:56
genetics or external invaders such as
03:00
bacteria or virus or toxins
03:04
or possibly as even a culpable
03:08
instigator of their own pathology by
03:11
certain so-called lifestyle choices like
03:15
eating too much drinking too much or
03:17
smoking this is a illnesses scene in
03:22
2017 a fellow Canadian physician dr.
03:25
Norman Doidge also an author writes
03:28
about brain and neuroplasticity said
03:31
that modern scientific medicine has
03:33
taken a fundamentally materialist
03:35
approach and it is analytical meaning
03:38
that it divides wholes in two parts
03:41
it often proceeds by reducing complex
03:44
phenomena to their more elementary
03:46
chemical and physical components viruses
03:49
genes molecules and that’s how it is and
03:58
this isn’t a new perception about
04:01
Western medicine in 1977 dr. George
04:06
Engel an American physician internist
04:08
and psychiatrist said that the dominant
04:10
model of medicine today is biomechanical
04:13
with molecular biology it’s basic
04:16
scientific discipline and what I’m
04:18
trying to say to you here is that the
04:21
critique that I’m gonna make tonight of
04:23
Western medicine and in providing an
04:26
alternative it’s not new actually people
04:29
have been saying this for a long long
04:30
time
04:30
so here’s George Engle saying that the
04:33
dominant model of medicine today is
04:35
biomechanical with molecular biology
04:38
it’s basic scientific discipline it
04:41
assumes disease to be fully accounted
04:43
for by deviations from the norm of
04:46
measurable biological variables it
04:50
leaves little room in its framework for
04:52
social psychological and behavioral
04:55
dimensions of illness the biomedical
04:58
model embraces mind-body dualism the
05:03
doctrine that separates the mental from
05:06
the semantics
05:09
and let me just give you three medical
05:14
facts here and and and and you’ll see
05:18
immediately how inadequate and
05:20
insufficient the Western medical
05:24
perspective is in explaining these facts
05:27
that I’m about to give you the first
05:29
fact there is a study that was done in
05:30
the United States last year was just a
05:32
two years ago now that show that the
05:34
more episodes of racism an American
05:37
black woman experiences the greater the
05:40
risk for asthma
05:42
now you can’t explain that on molecular
05:45
grounds
05:46
you just can’t a legality let me give
05:51
another fact in the 1930s and 40s the
05:54
gender ratio of multiple sclerosis which
05:57
is a inflammatory degenerative disease
06:00
of the nervous system was a one to one
06:02
in other words for every man there was a
06:05
woman diagnosed you know what the ratio
06:07
now is it’s three and a half women to
06:10
every man but that immediately tells us
06:13
it can’t be genetic because the genes
06:16
don’t change in a population over seven
06:20
decades or even ten decades or longer
06:23
number two it can’t be diet because that
06:27
doesn’t change for a population it
06:29
didn’t change more for women than for
06:31
men nor can it be the climate is
06:34
something going on and whatever it is it
06:37
can’t just be biological now what’s
06:41
interesting is that when you look at how
06:43
you treat asthma if you give to open up
06:47
the airways and to suppress inflammation
06:49
that happens in the asthmatic airway you
06:52
give inhalers or medications by mouth
06:57
which are copies of adrenalin and
07:02
cortisol adrenaline cortisol other
07:05
stress hormones of the body I’ll talk
07:07
about them later
07:08
they’re secreted by the adrenal gland in
07:11
response to a threat so there’s a drone
07:15
and cortisol so we’re treating asthma
07:17
with stress hormones how do we treat
07:20
multiple sclerosis
07:22
if you have a flare-up of your multiple
07:24
sclerosis you’re gonna get an infusion
07:26
of the stress hormone cortisol if you’ve
07:29
ever been to a dermatologist with a skin
07:32
flare-up some kind of chronic psoriasis
07:34
or eczema most of the time you’re going
07:37
to get a steroid cream a copy of
07:39
cortisol if you go to a Rheumatologist
07:41
with inflamed joints or connective
07:45
tissues guess what they’re gonna give
07:47
you steroids cortisol in all autoimmune
07:51
diseases I could go on so here’s the
07:57
clinic good the interesting question
07:59
we’re treating all these conditions
08:02
across medicine with stress hormones but
08:06
we’re not asking ourselves a simple
08:07
question is it possible that stress may
08:11
have something to do with this the onset
08:13
of this condition has something happened
08:15
to the body stress apparatus that we
08:18
have to give people now larger
08:20
quantities of stress hormone to keep
08:22
them from having symptoms and of course
08:25
it’s in the case of the the racism
08:29
induced asthmatic attack we can see that
08:34
obviously emotional factors must be
08:38
playing a role here and not just
08:41
emotional factors because the the black
08:45
woman who experiences racism isn’t an
08:47
isolated particle responding to nothing
08:51
in the environment she’s affected by a
08:53
social circumstance a social economic
08:57
political circumstance and so George
09:01
Engle in 1977 called for what he turned
09:05
a biopsychosocial approach for medicine
09:10
and he said
09:19
the boundaries between health and
09:22
disease between well and sick are far
09:25
from clear and will never be clear
09:27
because they’re affected by cultural
09:29
social and psychological considerations
09:32
that was 1977 and that was a new either
09:38
in nineteen forty another American
09:41
physician said that social and psychic
09:43
features play a role in every disease
09:45
but in many conditions they represent
09:48
dominant influences and that mental
09:51
factors represent an active force in the
09:54
treatment of patients as as active force
09:58
in the dreams of patients as chemical
10:00
and physical agents and that was a new
10:04
either because back in Roman times the
10:07
Greek physician Galen already pointed
10:09
out that women who have who are
10:12
depressed are more likely to have breast
10:14
cancer and now we have the actual
10:18
studies to show why and I’ll refer to
10:20
them later so what I’m saying is that
10:22
this awareness this this this is
10:25
intuitive awareness that that you can’t
10:28
separate the mind from the body and you
10:31
can’t separate the individual from the
10:32
environment it’s not new in medicine
10:35
what is new is the lobby of the science
10:38
to actually prove it and what is
10:40
remarkable and lamentable at the same
10:43
time is that despite the scientific
10:45
evidence medical practice still doesn’t
10:48
take into account and let me show you to
10:50
what degree doesn’t son ask you a
10:52
question raise your hand if in the last
10:57
say five years or so you’ve been to a
10:59
restaurant
11:03
– true and thorough largest a
11:06
cardiologist and neurologist or
11:09
dermatologist any kind of neurologists
11:11
just put your hand up okay great
11:13
no thank you now put your hand up again
11:16
if they ask you about any stress in your
11:18
childhood one person that’s fantastic
11:23
one out of 15 under
11:25
would you hand up if they asked you
11:27
about any trauma you experienced the
11:31
same person you went to a good doctor if
11:36
they ask you about your relationship
11:37
with your partner or spouse if they ask
11:43
you about how you feel about yourself as
11:44
a human being the same person and if
11:48
they ask you about any stresses at work
11:50
and I’m telling you that’s how bad it is
11:56
because every one of you I would say
12:00
well I don’t be too dogmatic maybe only
12:02
98% of you who went to see one of those
12:05
specialists went there because of those
12:07
factors that they never asked you about
12:09
and that’s what might want to talk to
12:12
you about now so I was 20 years in
12:14
Family Practice before I did addiction
12:16
medicine and for seven years I I did
12:22
palliative care work looking after
12:23
terminally ill people and so in my
12:27
experience I began to notice that there
12:29
were certain patterns sister who got
12:30
hill and who didn’t get ill and these
12:32
patterns just kept reasserting
12:34
themselves over and over and over again
12:35
until they became inescapable and in my
12:39
awareness and what these patterns were a
12:42
little straight for you by means of some
12:44
newspaper clippings from the canadian
12:47
newspaper The Globe and Mail for which I
12:52
wrote a medical column for a number of
12:54
years and these stories from the paper
12:58
illustrate aspects of what I call the
13:01
disease prone personality the first is a
13:07
first-person story written by a woman
13:10
called Donna who’s diagnosed with breast
13:12
cancer and she goes to her doctor and
13:14
she she’s describing the experience of
13:17
the diagnosis what you need to know is
13:19
that her doctor’s name is Harold and her
13:21
husband’s name is high the highest first
13:24
wife died of breast cancer and not Donna
13:26
the second wife is diagnosed with the
13:27
same condition and Donna writes
13:30
help tells me that the lump is small and
13:33
most of surely not in my lymph nodes
13:36
unlike that of heist first wife whose
13:38
cancer had spread everywhere by the time
13:40
they found it you’re not gonna die he
13:43
reassures me but I’m worried about hi I
13:46
say I won’t have the strength to support
13:48
him now anything what’s wrong with this
13:54
picture
13:56
so here she is diagnosed with the
13:58
potentially serious condition and her
14:02
first and she’s the one who might need
14:04
radiation surgery and or chemotherapy
14:07
and the first thought that she has is
14:11
how will I look after my husband’s
14:12
emotional needs
14:13
so this automatic and compulsive concern
14:18
for the emotional needs of others while
14:20
ignoring your own is a major risk factor
14:23
for disease for reasons that I might
14:25
tell you the other segments our site for
14:32
you now are obituaries and obituaries
14:35
are fascinating because they tell us not
14:38
just about the person who died but also
14:41
but will be as a society value in or
14:43
another and will be violent one another
14:46
is often what kills people
14:49
you’ve read the expression the good die
14:51
young they often do and there’s a reason
14:55
for it so many of you are relieved
14:58
having heard that
15:02
this is a physician who died at age 55
15:05
in Toronto never for a day that
15:09
contemplated giving up the work he so
15:11
loved at Toronto Sick Children’s
15:13
Hospital he carried on with his duties
15:15
throughout his real um battle with
15:17
cancer stopping only a few days before
15:20
he died again if a friend of yours is
15:26
diagnosed with a malignancy is that what
15:28
you would say to them go back to work
15:29
and keep working till you drop so
15:33
there’s this rigid and compulsive
15:35
identification with duty role and
15:37
responsibility rather than the needs of
15:40
the self is another risk factor for
15:43
illness for reasons I’ll explain the
15:48
third obituary the second obituary I’ve
15:53
read you is about a woman called not
15:54
only this is written by her grateful
15:56
husband and she died of breast cancer at
15:59
age 55 and the husband writes in her
16:02
entire life she’s never gone to a fight
16:04
with anyone the worst she could say was
16:07
phooey or something else along those
16:08
lines
16:09
she had no ego she just blended in with
16:12
the environment in an unassuming manner
16:15
now my life ray I think is in the
16:18
audience and we were married 50 years
16:22
this year and believe me there be many
16:24
times when I wish that she would blend
16:26
in with us
16:30
you know in an unassuming manner as I’m
16:34
sure many of you have will have partners
16:36
or spouses of any type but if your
16:39
partner must stay healthy they will not
16:41
blend him at the environment and really
16:44
what’s been described here is a
16:45
repression of healthy anger and the
16:48
repression of healthy anger we know
16:51
suppresses the immune system and it’s
16:54
literally the commonest characteristic
16:56
that I’ve seen in people with malignancy
16:58
and autoimmune disease when I say
17:01
repression I mean that they don’t even
17:04
lost a lot himself to experience the
17:06
anger and the final the betrayal I read
17:12
you is you’ll have to really take my
17:15
word for it that I copied this out
17:17
verbatim from the newspaper this is a
17:19
man called Sydney it was the physician
17:21
that aged 72 of cancer Sydney and his
17:24
mother had an incredibly special
17:26
relationship a bond that was apparent in
17:29
all aspects of their lives until her
17:31
death as a married man in young children
17:34
Sydney made a point to have dinner with
17:36
his parents every day as his wife
17:39
Rosalynn and their four kids waited for
17:42
him at home he would walk in greeted by
17:45
yet another dinner to eat and to enjoy
17:48
never wanted to disappoint either woman
17:50
in his life Sydney kept having to tears
17:53
a day for years until gradual weight
17:56
gain began to raise suspicions and this
17:59
is presented as a wonderful example of
18:02
loyal loyalty to the parent and what is
18:06
actually being described here is a poor
18:08
man who suffered from two fatal beliefs
18:10
some nicely fatal I mean literally fail
18:13
one is that he’s responsible for other
18:15
people feel and to that he must never
18:18
disappoint anybody I’ll give you one
18:24
more example which is actually a British
18:27
one it’s from the TV series the crown
18:29
which I’m sure many of you have seen
18:31
it’s a wonderful soap opera but the
18:33
Windsor family and as you know the the
18:37
current Queen’s father King George the
18:40
sixth ascended to the throne in 1936
18:45
when his brother Edward abdicated to
18:49
marry his divorced American sweetheart
18:54
he was his name wasn’t George the name
18:56
was Albert Bertie he did not want to
18:59
become King he did not when his mother
19:06
Queen Mary told him about the coming
19:09
abdication and I’d be up to him not to
19:11
assume the royal throne he writes in his
19:16
diary I’m sorry when I told her what had
19:18
happened I broke down and sobbed like a
19:20
child she says he said he didn’t want to
19:24
do it now in the in the crown in the TV
19:29
series there’s a conversation between
19:31
his mother Queen Mary and and his wife
19:36
the now deceased Queen mother Elizabeth
19:39
and the mother says no of course he died
19:45
of cancer he was a smoker in he died of
19:49
lung cancer there was a British surgeon
19:55
in the 1960s called Dave Adkisson who
19:59
noticed just like I noticed and as many
20:03
citizens have noticed these patterns in
20:05
their clients and he noticed that he was
20:07
operating on people with lung cancer and
20:10
of course the more you smoke the greater
20:12
the risk of lung cancer in a Bertie or
20:14
King George who became King George the
20:16
sack six was a smoker but kissin also
20:20
noticed that these people were also
20:21
suppress their emotions particularly
20:23
their anger and he did some studies and
20:26
actually found that the more you
20:28
suppress your emotion the less cigarette
20:30
smoke it took to trigger the cancer in
20:32
you now going back to the crown so
20:38
here’s the Queen Mother
20:40
a quick King George’s Albert’s mother
20:43
talking to his wife and in heesu she
20:47
says the mother says one can only be
20:50
thankful for the years one had with him
20:54
so wonderfully thoughtful and caring an
20:57
angel to his mother wife and children I
20:59
honestly believe he never thought of
21:02
himself at all he really was the perfect
21:05
son I want to be the perfect son in the
21:09
British royal family don’t think about
21:12
yourself don’t think about yourself so I
21:20
think that what we need is a is a
21:23
broader view of Medicine and so the
21:28
perspective that I’m going to present to
21:30
you here is along the lines of what
21:35
George Engle called a biopsychosocial
21:38
perspective which simply says that the
21:41
biology of human beings can’t be
21:43
separated from their social and
21:45
emotional processes dynamics and
21:48
environments well it can be an
21:53
interesting example from the animal
21:54
world in an ant colony or a bee colony
21:57
there’s the Queen right and the Queen’s
22:00
job is to produce the eggs and she’s
22:02
bigger and and people being her food and
22:04
she really as the center of the hives
22:08
solicitous attention and you think
22:11
there’s something different about the
22:12
Queen no genetically she’s the same as
22:16
all the drones it’s just that because of
22:21
the demands of the hive she develops the
22:23
characteristics of the Queen and if you
22:26
take the Queen out of the hive of an ant
22:28
colony for example the drew one of the
22:32
drones will develop into the queen
22:34
biologically they will change in other
22:37
words the biology of the individual what
22:39
really reflects the needs of the group
22:41
and that’s also the case in in human
22:47
life so
22:51
three years ago I had the pleasure or
22:55
two years ago they were being been
22:57
written in London presenting at the
22:59
breath of life conference and one of the
23:02
coal speakers was the great trauma
23:06
psychiatrist and my friend of mine dr.
23:08
Bissell van der Kolk and and Bessel says
23:12
in his book the body keeps the score our
23:16
culture teaches us to focus on personal
23:19
uniqueness but in a deeper level we
23:21
barely exists as individual organisms
23:23
our brains are built to help us function
23:26
as members of art of a tribe and that’s
23:34
not you either because if you go back
23:36
2,500 years to the Buddha he said he
23:40
thought the Buddha thought about what he
23:42
called the in the interdependent
23:45
co-arising of phenomena he said that
23:48
every phenomena arising relationship to
23:50
every other film you can’t separate
23:52
anything from anything else and he said
23:56
contemplate the nature of interconnected
23:58
core arising during every moment when
24:01
you look at a leaf or a raindrop
24:02
meditate on all the conditions near and
24:06
distant that have contributed to the
24:08
presence of that leaf or raindrop the
24:11
birth and death of any phenomenon he
24:13
says are connected to the birth and
24:15
death of all other phenomena the one
24:18
contains the many and the many contains
24:20
the one without the one there cannot be
24:24
the many without the many that cannot be
24:27
the one and so the perspective I will
24:35
propose is for you propose here for you
24:38
is that biopsychosocial perspective and
24:42
from that perspective illness is not an
24:47
entity in itself it is actually the
24:50
manifestation of a person’s life in a
24:55
certain context
24:58
which many factors contribute but the
25:02
psychological cannot be separate from
25:04
the physical and the physical and the
25:07
psychological aspects of the individual
25:09
cannot be separated from his or her
25:12
social connections and existence and
25:16
therefore from the culture that they
25:18
live in and if we’re going to be fully
25:20
inclusive about human beings
25:23
I’ll have to bring in another dimension
25:26
which of course is heresy in medical
25:30
terms which is the spiritual one and so
25:36
basically we’re biopsychosocial
25:37
spiritual creatures and spiritual simply
25:40
means that there’s more to us than the
25:42
little ego that many of us are hung upon
25:45
and which rules this particular society
25:49
the second point I’m going to make for
25:51
you is that dizzy disease is not a fixed
25:54
entity it’s a process and that process
25:58
is not separated from that person’s life
26:01
so that all the multiple sclerosis will
26:04
behave is not simply a characteristic of
26:08
the disease it reflects what’s happening
26:11
in a life of that particular individual
26:13
which is by the way why we’re seeing
26:16
three times as much in women right now
26:17
which I’ll talk about later but it’s a
26:20
process and if it’s a process that
26:24
somehow manifests who are we living our
26:26
lives then we can actually perhaps do
26:30
something about it and I’m not here
26:33
trying to give you an alternative to
26:35
Western medicine which has many
26:38
wonderful achievements to its credit and
26:41
can do miraculous can perform miracles
26:44
really as as we all know but there’s
26:47
something missing and what’s missing is
26:49
that we don’t know from the rest of
26:51
medical perspective how to promote the
26:55
healing process within the patient
26:58
himself or herself over themselves and
27:02
from that perspective illness is not
27:06
just meant to be battled it’s meant to
27:08
be come to terms with
27:10
understood inquired into as to what its
27:15
messages and from that perspective
27:17
illness is the potential teacher and and
27:21
that invites and actually necessitates
27:25
an inquiry now let me give you another
27:28
british medical fact
27:31
Stephen Hawking the physicist who died
27:33
what three years ago not two years ago
27:35
in his mid seventies of ALS amyotrophic
27:40
lateral sclerosis or known in Britain as
27:43
motor neuron disease do you know he was
27:45
diagnosed at age twenty you know um he
27:49
was given to live two years he should
27:52
have died well over fifty years ago
27:55
something didn’t figure in the equation
27:58
did it otherwise he would have succumbed
28:01
a much longer and many people do succumb
28:04
of course but I know I I know people
28:06
like Hawking who have long survived ALS
28:10
and have done even better than he did in
28:12
terms of physical functioning so the
28:15
disease must does not have a life of its
28:18
own it does manifest the life and
28:21
functioning and and and social
28:23
circumstances of the individual let me
28:28
talk to you about another British person
28:30
I could talk about ALS as an interesting
28:33
example but I’ll leave it for now let me
28:36
come to multiple sclerosis and there was
28:38
a person who I was very interested in
28:42
because I’m a lover of classical music
28:46
and and and I’m ranged in the lives of
28:49
musicians and that there was the Great
28:52
British jealous Jacqueline Despres who
28:55
died of multiple sclerosis in her
28:57
forties and
29:06
I’m gonna play a piece of music actually
29:08
a couple of minutes of the her recording
29:12
of the Elgar cello concerto and I’m
29:18
recalling now so I may not be quoting it
29:21
exactly but it’s a remarkable recording
29:24
made acting when she was 21 or 20 years
29:26
old and her sister Hillary who was also
29:31
a musician not as gifted as Jackie was
29:33
said that Jackie’s ability to capture
29:36
the emotions of a man in the autumn of
29:39
his life was one of her remarkable and
29:42
inexplicable capacities well it was
29:45
remarkable what it wasn’t inexplicable
29:47
now Elga wrote this concerto in the
29:50
aftermath of the First World War and he
29:52
was really despondent at the carnage and
29:55
he said at the time when he wrote is
29:57
that everything nice and fresh and clean
30:00
as far away we’ll never return and
30:04
Jackie looked at portraits of Elgar and
30:07
it always made her sad and and she said
30:11
to her sister Hillary he has such a
30:13
beautiful soul
30:14
and that’s what I sense in his music now
30:18
when Jacqueline Despres played the cello
30:20
for audiences when she came to Canada in
30:22
Toronto the audience cried she was that
30:27
moving and her performance and and when
30:30
she was on stage it’s like a wall that
30:34
always stood between her and other
30:36
people all of a sudden dissolved and
30:40
then she became vibrant and she her body
30:45
moved around and her blonde blonde hair
30:48
swayed and flew in the air and she just
30:50
puts so much emotion into her playing so
30:55
they call that her cello voice but she
30:58
was never able to express her emotions
31:00
in real life
31:01
in fact she tried to fit in just to be
31:05
the person everybody wanted her to be
31:06
her sister said that she was always the
31:09
Jackie that circumstances demanded oh
31:12
that’s totally typical of everybody with
31:14
multiple sclerosis
31:17
why and you might think at this point it
31:22
well she she didn’t actually want any
31:26
more than King Albert wanted to become
31:30
King George no more than that did Jacky
31:34
want to become a cello virtuoso Chien
31:37
meets somebody who give up the cello
31:39
because I can’t do it because people
31:41
would be so disappointed in me she said
31:44
she actually was afraid that it would
31:45
kill her
31:46
and it did when she was seven or eight
31:52
years old I forget exactly I read the
31:54
Hilary’s account of this she said that
31:57
to her sister Hill don’t tell our mummy
32:00
this but when I will go up I won’t be
32:03
able to move for a walk that’s exactly
32:05
what happened by the time she was in her
32:07
30s it’s very interesting here because
32:14
sometimes people have this intuitive
32:16
feeling Jonathan Swift the great
32:19
satirist and writer author of Gulliver’s
32:21
Travels who died with severe Alzheimer’s
32:24
dementia said to a doctor friend of his
32:27
as they were walking outside one day
32:29
looking at this tree losing its leaves
32:32
and and and so it said I should be like
32:34
that tree I shall die first at the top
32:38
there’s something in us that knows
32:42
Jacqueline du pre went to Russia to
32:44
study the cello in the land of music she
32:47
was raped there she comes back to
32:50
England and says to Hilary Hilary don’t
32:53
tell her mommy this but I was raped in
32:55
Russia now notice both times don’t tell
32:58
her mommy this she doesn’t want to hurt
33:00
the mummy’s feelings or upset the money
33:03
and you might think at this point I’m
33:06
blaming her for the disease I’m not
33:12
blaming anybody for the disease because
33:14
these patterns that are describing are
33:16
not conscious on anybody’s part nobody
33:17
chooses them
33:18
deliberately but there is a sense but
33:23
there is a responsibility hereby
33:24
responsibility I don’t mean in any sense
33:26
guilt or blame I mean in the sense that
33:28
if you actually look at who gets sick
33:31
and why yes there’s certain patterns and
33:33
dynamics certain beliefs that they hold
33:36
about themselves in a relationship to
33:37
the world that actually I’m not going to
33:40
say causes the illness but but but
33:42
contributes significantly to the onset
33:45
of the illness and furthermore there’s
33:50
another meaning to the word
33:51
responsibility responsible which is
33:54
response able we want people to be
33:58
responsible and I can tell you I know
34:01
people with multiple sclerosis who wants
34:04
to become response able once they look
34:07
at the flare-ups and what stresses led
34:10
to the flare-ups and how they
34:11
unwittingly contributed little stresses
34:14
and learn how to prevent the next
34:15
flare-up their disease actually
34:18
significantly mitigated and that’s what
34:20
I mean by responsibility I mean response
34:23
ability so they had what Jackie called
34:33
the cello voice or what’s called her
34:36
cello voice now in this particular
34:39
recording you’ll hear that voice but but
34:44
interestingly enough there’s another
34:46
recording of the same co-chair go
34:47
bye-bye Despres some years later which
34:52
her sister heard after her sister’s
34:55
death it was the last recording made by
35:00
Jacqueline to frame Britain before she
35:03
could no longer play the cello and an
35:05
axillary was listening to this recording
35:09
she she said suddenly I stopped she said
35:14
Jackie was slowing the tempo down I knew
35:18
what she was doing she was speaking in
35:20
her cello voice she was playing her own
35:23
Requiem
35:26
recording a play you know is the one
35:30
that was made by the 21 or 20 year old
35:36
excuse me a second here
35:38
Jacqueline to pay
35:50
you
36:53
I wish I could pay him a few more
36:55
minutes of that but
36:56
run out of time if I do
37:00
question is why do people do that why
37:01
did the subject’s themselves where they
37:03
try to please others why did they try it
37:05
why don’t you try to be the Jackie that
37:06
circumstances demanded this is where
37:11
there’s no blame whatsoever because
37:12
Jacqueline Despres was born to a mother
37:17
who was while she was still mouth filled
37:19
with her baby lost her father whom she
37:22
was very close
37:24
Jacqueline’s mother’s father died the
37:28
the role that Jackie was thrust into as
37:31
an infant was that of the mother’s
37:33
emotional support she had no emotion it
37:37
was distance of her own and these early
37:39
relationships that we experienced them
37:43
iike more templates for our
37:45
personalities and they become the
37:47
templates for how we interact with the
37:50
world and the key point here is that
37:55
there are two basic needs that human
37:58
beings have one is for attachment now
38:03
attachment is absolutely essential for
38:05
human our survival attachment is
38:08
actually a biological drive it’s an
38:11
instinct to be close to another person
38:13
why do we have that drive because
38:15
without it we can’t survive the human
38:18
infant is the most helpless most
38:20
dependent least capable creature in the
38:27
universe and so without an attachment
38:30
Drive that calls that infant to come
38:34
close to the mother to be taken care of
38:36
or to the father to the parenting
38:38
figures and without an equivalent
38:41
attachment drive on the part of the
38:43
parenting figure to be close to the baby
38:46
there’s no survival of the infant
38:49
reptiles can get away with it birds
38:52
can’t mammals can’t at least awoken
38:55
human beings so the attachment drive is
38:57
like a gravitational force that pulls
38:59
two bodies together for the purpose of
39:01
being taken care of or to take care of
39:03
the other so that attachment drive is
39:08
not negotiable
39:11
can’t survive without it nor could we
39:13
have survived as individuals as we
39:15
evolved from our pre hominid ancestors
39:18
and over millions of years 100 thousands
39:21
of years people had to attach to each
39:23
other in small groups in order to
39:25
survive so that’s just a basic need but
39:29
we have another need that’s also
39:31
important in the long-term and that need
39:34
is for authenticity an authenticity
39:37
means knowing what you feel and your
39:41
guts and being able to act on it now as
39:46
well now let me ask you a question I’ll
39:48
ask again for show of hands just please
39:50
raise your hand if you’ve had the
39:51
experience of having a stronger feeling
39:55
about something ignoring it and being
39:57
sorry after registration
39:59
well again you know that’s how important
40:02
it is that’s how important it is and
40:05
when you think of human evolution or
40:09
think of any animal out there in the
40:11
wild today just how long is an organism
40:14
a creature survive out there in the wild
40:17
if they’re not in touch with their gut
40:19
feelings so we have these two important
40:24
needs attachment and authenticity Auto
40:28
the self being in touch with ourselves
40:31
no that’s fine but what if you’re 2
40:37
years old and your mother doesn’t give
40:40
you another cookie before dinner so you
40:43
do what a two-year-old does everyone get
40:45
another cookie you throw a tantrum and
40:48
then you get the message good little
40:51
kids don’t get angry you might even be
40:54
punished
40:57
Jordan Peterson the Canadian so-called
41:05
psychologist says that
41:10
it says that an angry child should be
41:12
made to sit by themselves so the message
41:17
that the angry child gets is not that
41:20
good older kids don’t get angry but the
41:22
angry little kids don’t get loved know
41:26
what I said what I told you was that the
41:28
attachment drive is not negotiable if I
41:32
get the message that my healthy anger
41:35
which is just expressing on feeling is
41:40
unacceptable and threatens my attachment
41:43
relationship because I’m going to lose
41:44
the parent if I do it what if suppose
41:48
I’ll do what do you think is gonna get
41:50
sacrificed the attachment impossible in
41:55
every case the authenticity is gonna be
41:57
a sacrifice and now we become separated
42:00
from ourselves and so when you raised
42:03
your hand in answer to this last
42:04
question about God feelings what you’re
42:07
really telling me is that sometime in
42:09
your childhood you learned that it was
42:12
safer for you to ignore your gut
42:14
feelings than to pay attention to them
42:17
and I’m not saying that your parents
42:20
meant to teach that to you
42:21
I don’t thought for a moment that they
42:24
did their best but that was their best
42:26
because the way this society raises
42:29
children and stresses parents the result
42:32
is a lot of people are completely
42:34
disconnected from themselves and who are
42:37
not in touch with their feelings now I’m
42:41
gonna pay another song that illustrates
42:43
that as the saddest song I actually know
42:47
and you’ve probably heard it before but
42:51
maybe think about it from this
42:53
perspective it is meant to be a love
42:56
song but it’s actually anything but a
42:59
love song okay well I can’t make it work
43:03
and I’m not gonna suffer at it so it’s
43:06
it’s it’s the song anyway you want me by
43:08
Elvis Presley many things you know I’ll
43:11
be strong as a
43:13
or the week is a baby anyway you want me
43:19
that’s how I’ll be in my hands or in
43:24
your in your hands my heart is clay to
43:27
do with it as you will you know anyway
43:30
you want me that’s how I’ll be that’s
43:32
the lyrics this is thought to be a love
43:34
song but it actually is is the absence
43:36
of love song and if I would have played
43:39
for you because his voice is so sad when
43:41
he sings it but any case the point is
43:45
that the personality that we develop is
43:48
not actually a reflection of our two
43:50
cells very often it’s their defenses
43:53
against the loss of love and so it’s not
43:57
us an illness comes along when we’re not
44:03
being ourselves when you don’t get the
44:10
attention that you needed as a child as
44:14
an infant
44:15
you’ll be consumed by attracting
44:16
attention and now you’re gonna be very
44:19
attractive how many times have you
44:22
passed the mirror without wondering if
44:26
you’re attractive enough you’re just
44:29
looking for love if you didn’t get the
44:33
approval that you needed as a child just
44:35
for existing just for being we were you
44:39
really want to be winning approval all
44:41
the time you’ll be a winning personality
44:43
if you want value do you want to measure
44:46
up if you wanted me to feel special just
44:49
goes for who you were you might be
44:51
demanding in which case you want for the
44:55
leadership of the Conservative Party if
45:00
you if you weren’t esteem for who you
45:03
were then you might want to impress
45:05
people if you weren’t made to feel
45:08
important for just who you were then you
45:11
go to medical school like I did and you
45:13
want to make yourself important if you
45:18
weren’t like for viewer you’re gonna be
45:20
very nice so that people will like you
45:23
so that you can have this simulacrum of
45:24
love
45:25
if you weren’t loved you’ll be very
45:28
charming and people say what a charming
45:30
guy or what a charming woman
45:32
this person is but all of this demands
45:37
that you suppress your own feelings now
45:41
how does that lead to illness at least
45:45
it illness because it’s very stressful
45:47
all this to be playing a role it’s
45:50
actually stressful and there’s always
45:53
the fear behind it it’s fear driven and
45:56
fears of state of being in stress now
46:00
the stress hormones if I were to scream
46:02
at you right now
46:03
and-and-and-and frighten you you would
46:07
have a stress response by the way just
46:10
to indicate how inseparable the – from
46:13
the body that’s so simple it is I could
46:15
change your physiology in this room I
46:18
could change the physiology of 1,500
46:20
people in this room without touching
46:22
them simply by generating a credible
46:25
threat to fight a weapon for example and
46:27
screamed at you your physiology would
46:29
change in a split second that doesn’t
46:32
just happen in extreme circumstances it
46:34
happens every moment of our lives that
46:36
our physiology responds to our emotions
46:40
now if I were to stress you right now to
46:45
induce fear in you like that your
46:49
adrenaline levels will go up and your
46:51
cortisol levels go up because what
46:53
happened is that the fear center in the
46:55
brain would communicate with the
46:57
hypothalamus in the brain which is the
46:59
apex of the autonomic nervous system and
47:02
also for hormonal apparatus and then
47:04
messages through your autonomic nervous
47:06
system would go through to the entire
47:09
body and then hormones would be released
47:11
and then your adrenal gland would
47:13
respond by secreting adrenaline which
47:16
gives you more energy more strength more
47:19
speed for the flight-or-fight response
47:21
that you don’t have to generate and
47:23
you’d have cortisol released as well
47:25
which gives you more sugar so that you
47:28
can be more energetic again in the
47:31
escape or
47:33
struggle response to stress so in the
47:36
short-term these hormones save your life
47:38
in the long term they kill you
47:41
adrenaline a secretor of a long period
47:43
time
47:44
elevates your blood pressure and narrows
47:46
your blood vessels makes you more prone
47:48
for heart disease or strokes
47:51
we know this cortisol in a long term
47:56
depresses makes you depressed actually
47:59
it means your bones osteoporosis it can
48:04
also eat your intestines and get put fat
48:08
on your belly in a way that promotes
48:10
heart disease and also it suppresses
48:13
your immune system so people chronically
48:16
stressed we know have diminished
48:20
activity of their immune system so for
48:22
example people who are bereaved and then
48:27
after a strong a close relationship of
48:30
course depending on our level of social
48:31
support they have but the more alone
48:34
they are the more likely they’re going
48:37
to be have a high level of a stress
48:38
response and you can measure activity of
48:41
the immune system is being diminished
48:43
now Britain I understand a couple of
48:46
years ago actually appointed a minister
48:49
of loneliness
48:50
that’s how endemic loneliness has become
48:53
in our society and people only get sick
48:56
faster and they die quicker of their
48:58
diseases after a bad divorce it’s even
49:02
worse the the the the suppression and
49:05
and disturbance of the immune system
49:07
according to studies and this diminished
49:10
activity of a group of cells called
49:12
natural killer cells natural killer
49:14
cells attack malignant cells and attack
49:17
foreign invaders a George Bush the I’m
49:21
talking about George Bush Senior was not
49:23
deceased but he survived his wife
49:26
Barbara by I think one or two years the
49:29
day after her funeral she was
49:30
hospitalized with a blood infection she
49:35
that was an accident
49:36
pierre-yves meant deep
49:38
the immune system in Australia there was
49:42
a study they looked at 500 women with
49:45
breast lumps that needed to be biopsied
49:48
to make sure it wasn’t malignant and
49:52
before the results were in the women
49:57
underwent a sucker’s were quite
49:58
psychological questionnaire and what
50:01
they found was that if a woman was
50:03
emotionally isolated that by itself
50:06
didn’t increase the romp but the chance
50:08
of the lump in cancers if a woman was
50:11
highly stressed around the answer to
50:15
that lump that by itself also didn’t
50:17
increase that Johnson chances are
50:19
lumping cancers but if a woman was
50:21
emotionally isolated and stressed the
50:25
chance of the lumping cancers was 9
50:27
times as great as the average and the
50:30
researchers being medical scientists who
50:34
think from up here they couldn’t figure
50:36
this onna because they said how does 9
50:38
plus and part of 0 plus 0 add up to 9 if
50:41
to 0 effect here zero effect there
50:43
what’s happening well of course it’s
50:45
obvious what’s happening is for example
50:47
in the front row person at the very
50:50
aisle seat here if you’re very stressed
50:53
and you had these high levels of stress
50:55
hormones which were affecting your
50:57
immune system and if you’re all along
50:58
with it for months you might be in
51:01
trouble
51:01
but it was a friend of you’re sitting
51:03
next to you and says hey friend hey
51:06
sweetheart hey buddy you seem upset you
51:10
want to talk about it
51:11
what happens your stress hormones your
51:15
nervous system relaxes your heart rate
51:18
decreases your intestinal muscles in the
51:22
gut relaxed and you and your stress
51:25
hormone levels go way down
51:27
we’re biopsychosocial creatures and so
51:31
these patterns of emotional self
51:34
suppression they promote illness in part
51:38
because they leave us completely alone
51:40
because whether we’re alone on
51:42
does not depend on how many friends we
51:44
have and again I’m quoting Bessel Vander
51:48
Kolk he says social support is not the
51:50
same as being merely in the presence of
51:52
others the critical issue is reciprocity
51:55
being truly heard and seen by the people
51:58
around us feeling that were held in
52:01
someone else’s heart and mine but if I’m
52:03
suppressing Who I am nobody’s ever gonna
52:06
see me and I might be very nice and
52:09
there might be a thousand people who
52:10
love me but none of them know me and I’m
52:14
totally isolated the beauty at heart and
52:17
that’s what’s going on let me talk to
52:21
you briefly about stress and I’ll have
52:23
to bring this still close fairly soon
52:24
there’s so much more I would wish to
52:25
tell you stress is by the way there’s
52:31
another mechanism by which stress and
52:34
early childhood negative experiences
52:36
lead to disease which is simply through
52:38
inflammation so we know for example that
52:40
the more trauma our child experiences
52:42
the greater level of inflammatory
52:44
particles in their bloodstream as adults
52:48
you can measure inflammatory proteins in
52:51
the bloodstream and the more stress you
52:53
had as a kid the higher they’re going to
52:55
be and the more stress you have there’s
52:57
another structure I mean the information
52:58
just coming in all the time it’s hard to
53:01
even keep up with it there’s a structure
53:03
called telomeres telomeres are
53:05
structures at the end of your
53:07
chromosomes like the shoelace that has a
53:10
glue at the end to keep the strands
53:12
together telomeres keep the chromosome
53:14
together telomeres shorten with stress
53:18
they are suffered with age so children
53:20
who were traumatized for example of
53:23
shorter telomeres which means that
53:25
they’re chronologically older than their
53:27
peers and so there’s many mechanisms by
53:31
which stress affects the body that way
53:34
but let me talk to you about stress for
53:35
a moment so stress has three components
53:38
and this is maybe that takeaway there’s
53:41
the external event called the stressor
53:44
so depending on where you stand on
53:46
brexit the
53:49
the defeat of the referendum would have
53:52
stressed you or perhaps the success of
53:56
the referendum is what stressed you so
53:59
there’s no universal stressor it depends
54:02
on individual of what they perceive and
54:04
experience a particular event so their
54:08
first component of the stress reaction
54:11
is the event okay the third and final
54:16
component of the stress reaction is the
54:19
physiological stress response with the
54:21
adrenaline the cortisol and the nervous
54:23
system and the guard and the heart and
54:25
really the whole body but in between the
54:29
external event and the physical reaction
54:36
is what we can call the processing
54:38
apparatus and the processing apparatus
54:40
is you and I with our particular
54:42
interpretations or beliefs usually
54:45
unconscious interpretations unconscious
54:48
beliefs internal emotional dynamics that
54:51
we have no control over that’s the front
54:53
row become conscious of them so the
54:55
really the whole point of this talk is
54:56
to become conscious what was happening
54:58
inside us now I can give you a personal
55:03
example I believe I have my wife’s
55:04
permission to tell the story I’m going
55:08
to tell you something incredible going
55:10
back to say 20 years ago my wife’s name
55:12
is Rae and let’s say I would ask her to
55:14
sleep with me one night and she’d say no
55:16
and I know that for many of you this is
55:19
totally unbelievable but Archer here
55:23
it did happen occasionally and the
55:27
question is now how does a man in his
55:29
50s a successful physician national
55:31
commerce or for prestigious newspaper
55:34
head of the palliative care unit in
55:36
Vancouver Hospital how does this guy
55:38
respond to and his wife of at that time
55:40
30 years says no not tonight well in my
55:43
case I would curl into a fetal ball wish
55:47
that I was dead
55:48
and next morning I couldn’t even look
55:51
her in the eye and what’s that all about
55:56
well of course you’d say it’s about
55:58
abandoned and in rejection but I was
56:00
being abandoned or rejected she just
56:02
said not tonight for any number of
56:05
reasons but it’s really about is that
56:10
when I was one year old and some of my
56:12
life history may know this I was given
56:14
to a total stranger by my by my mother
56:16
and I didn’t see her for five or six
56:19
weeks and this was to save my life
56:21
in wartime Hungary in january of
56:24
nineteen December of 1944 I was just
56:27
under a year old John Bowlby the great
56:31
British psychiatrist and and researcher
56:33
of attachment talked about the infants
56:37
with a young child’s response when the
56:38
mother doesn’t show up this is these
56:41
studies were done here in Britain the
56:43
first response of the infant of the
56:45
child actually the young child is
56:47
anxiety when the mother doesn’t come
56:49
come back the second response is
56:51
depression kind of gives up life is not
56:55
worth living
56:55
without the mom and then the kid starts
56:58
acting normally he’ll eat again he’ll
57:00
interact and play again and when the
57:04
mother does come back this is what this
57:06
happened when kids were hospitalized and
57:07
the mothers were told not to visit
57:09
because it’s too upsetting for the kid
57:11
who could see the mother come and go
57:12
which is wrong but this is how they did
57:14
it the child is physiologically stressed
57:20
her heart rate goes up but she won’t
57:24
even look at the mother and ball because
57:27
this defensive detachment it’s a
57:30
self-protection
57:31
the message is I was so hurt when you
57:35
abandoned me
57:36
that will not make myself vulnerable
57:37
again to that same degree of pain and
57:41
these reactions get programmed into our
57:45
brains so much so that five decades
57:50
later my wife wano loves me very much
57:56
has been through all kinds of stuff with
57:58
me says Norman knight and I go into the
58:02
physiological mental response of the
58:04
infant and I want it on look at her
58:07
until I become conscious that this is
58:09
what’s happening when I become conscious
58:12
I can say to myself well okay I’m just
58:15
telling a story to myself
58:17
the story of rejection or abandonment is
58:19
just a story then even if I was being
58:21
rejected abandoned I’m not a helpless
58:23
infant anymore but you see we all tells
58:27
us all tell us all tell ourselves these
58:29
stories and these stories often run our
58:32
lives and to the extent that they’re
58:35
unconscious and to the extent that we
58:38
keep suppressing ourselves for the sake
58:40
of attachment for the sake of being
58:42
accepted and loved and respected and
58:44
accepted by others and we’re
58:48
disconnected from our true selves to
58:50
that extent we’re stretching ourselves
58:51
and to that degree we’re actually making
58:54
also sake and from that point of view
58:56
illness comes along to teach you
58:59
something
59:00
now I’m not inviting you to get sick to
59:03
learn this lesson nobody wishes that on
59:07
anybody else whatsoever what I am saying
59:10
is that when illness does come along and
59:12
then there’s many many people now and
59:14
for my next book I’ve talked a lot of
59:17
these people when they did get sick
59:20
rather than just simply see it as a
59:22
calamity to battle against
59:26
they also saw it as an opportunity to
59:28
learn and what people keep learning over
59:31
and over again
59:32
it’s how they had not been themselves
59:35
the illness came along to bring them
59:38
back to themselves that’s what they keep
59:40
learning so again I’m not suggesting
59:43
that anybody should reach
59:46
Western medicine although sometimes you
59:48
may want to depending on the
59:51
circumstances but the point is that
59:54
nobody should be a passive recipient
59:56
anybody else’s care we need to regain a
59:59
sense of agency is the sense of agency
60:01
of actually making the decisions and
60:05
actually looking at our lives and our
60:07
patterns and our dynamics and really
60:09
being courageous about that and being
60:11
open about it and being supremely
60:13
curious and not judging ourselves or God
60:16
I failed I I was too nice I pushed
60:20
myself down no but ask yourself okay why
60:25
was I doing that and do I really need to
60:27
do that
60:28
am I still really that infant a young
60:30
child who needs to choose attachment
60:34
over authenticity and yes I may lose
60:37
some friends who have you are used to me
60:42
being this particular way and that’s
60:44
what they signed up for but my two
60:46
friends will celebrate me for finally
60:49
being myself
60:50
the Canadian stress researcher hand
60:55
cellie ate himself from hungry like
60:57
myself and he coined the word stress the
61:01
way we use it today he said that in the
61:04
modern world stresses are mostly
61:06
emotional he said and the biggest stress
61:09
of all is trying somebody trying to be
61:12
sending other than who you are so if
61:15
this takeaway lesson here it’s get to
61:18
know who you are and be who you are
61:20
thank you
61:32
thank you
61:37
so my next book which will be published
61:40
here in Britain in two years we’ve
61:43
called the myth of normal illness in
61:45
health in an insane culture which kind
61:48
of speaks for itself
61:49
we do have I would say 10 minutes for
61:51
questions so I think there are mics is
61:56
that how it’s gonna work people will
61:57
raise their hands and the mics will come
61:58
to them yeah there’s a mic right there
62:00
if you a question feel free to ask and I
62:03
do ask you to ask questions rather than
62:05
make grant statements leave that to me
62:13
hi hi where are you sorry just in front
62:17
of you in front of me in front of you at
62:18
the back okay yeah yeah all right thank
62:23
you for your talk it was great I just I
62:26
was wondering really because you were
62:27
talking about obviously people who’ve
62:28
been stressed out and their telomeres
62:31
might have reduced and in babe I have
62:33
inflammation in the future and so on is
62:35
that something that you think can be
62:37
reversed or once the damage is done
62:39
that’s it
62:40
no once the damages is not it and I
62:44
don’t talk about in terms of damage the
62:50
true self the authentic self is never
62:53
lost if I deserve a interesting word
62:55
that we use when it comes to illness or
62:57
addiction what’s the word that we use
62:58
when people get better they recover what
63:04
does it mean to recover it needs to find
63:06
something well if you find it means they
63:08
could never be lost in the first place
63:11
so I think that healing is always well I
63:14
don’t say always I mean at a certain
63:16
point people are diagnosed that terminal
63:18
stages were nothing they’re gonna do is
63:20
gonna relieve them of the burden of
63:24
illness but often often often often
63:30
becoming conscious becoming him some
63:34
agents in your life to make a huge
63:36
difference if we only supported people
63:38
in doing so well let me go back to this
63:41
question of women and multiple sclerosis
63:42
which I may have left
63:44
I just recall as I hope and then the
63:46
issue in your mind why do I think this
63:52
gender ratio is burgeoned I look that
63:55
way because women have always played the
63:57
role of being the emotional stress
64:00
absorbs or absorbers of their
64:02
environment so they tend to take on the
64:04
stresses of their spouses and their
64:05
families they still play that role for
64:08
the most part but on top of that since
64:10
the 30s and the 40s they’ve also taken
64:12
on an economic role but they have not
64:16
given up the other role it’s not that
64:19
they haven’t given a nap
64:20
society hasn’t relieved them of it the
64:23
men haven’t stepped up for the most part
64:26
to share that emotional burden so women
64:30
are still carrying that but now they got
64:32
the economic role as well and they’re
64:35
doing so in the context of less social
64:37
support because there’s all kinds of
64:38
reasons why didn’t this neoliberal
64:42
economy and Ana stress culture people
64:45
are more and more isolated so you’ve got
64:48
more stress more isolation of course
64:51
you’re gonna have more autoimmune
64:52
disease and so about 75 or 80 percent of
64:57
autoimmune disease actually happens to
64:58
women and I believe all that can be
65:02
reversed if we become conscious okay
65:07
next question yes thank you
65:12
what are practical things that we can do
65:14
to become more conscious and regain our
65:16
authentic selves well a good therapist
65:23
if you can find one not that easy
65:26
necessarily practices that makes you
65:30
more aware so you really pay attention
65:31
to yourself some mindfulness practices
65:35
practices that put you in touch with the
65:38
body certain kinds of yoga I don’t I
65:42
don’t mean Bikram yoga we go to sweat
65:44
and get into great shape and I’m nothing
65:48
against that but that’s not gonna help
65:50
with this stuff so anything that makes
65:52
you more conscious of your body
65:53
your emotions those are the practices
66:00
I’m just following the mics around hello
66:04
over here on your right am i right oh
66:07
yeah in green I’ll stand up okay yeah
66:10
yeah just about the repressing anger how
66:15
can you give us tips about how to
66:17
express anger in a healthy way right
66:19
that will not cost you your job or your
66:22
relationships people may be stuck in the
66:26
job where there’s a lot of anger built
66:28
up on an everyday basis and you may not
66:30
be able to express it yeah I got it so
66:32
just keep standing from it okay let me
66:35
just do an exercise with you okay I mean
66:37
let’s just demonstrate with anger anger
66:38
with healthy anger is all about if you
66:40
if you want to volunteer is that okay
66:42
okay thank you what’s your name Emily
66:45
Emily thank you so Emily if if I for the
66:51
remainder of the evening for this
66:52
question period I stood right here is
66:55
that okay with you that’s fine that’s
66:57
fine so the distance is okay now what is
67:00
over to come and stand right here is
67:03
that this and still okay with you that’s
67:05
okay you know what if I moved right in
67:07
so I’m just right in your face it’d
67:09
still be okay it’s a bit it’s a bit
67:11
weird a bit weird okay and what if I
67:16
stood on your feet now okay so what
67:18
would you do about that
67:19
um I’ll step off my feet but by the way
67:24
well the one rule in this experiment is
67:26
that you can’t move you have to stand in
67:28
your spot that’s your life you can’t
67:30
leave it okay you have to stand your you
67:32
have to be on new ground that’s your
67:33
life you can’t leave it but you can do
67:35
whatever else you need to do so I’m
67:37
moving into your space what are you
67:38
gonna do well I might push you back here
67:41
then you might push me back eventually
67:42
thank you very much and when you were
67:44
pushing what emotion do you think they’d
67:45
be generating for myself if you were
67:48
pushing me one sorry Ronnie anger yes
67:52
exactly so that’s a healthy anger is
67:54
it’s a boundary defense that’s all that
67:57
it is it says you’re in my space get out
68:00
okay
68:02
their fishing is unhealthy anger the
68:05
rivers banana healthy anger and healthy
68:06
anger is that healthy angers about the
68:08
present moment I’m in my space right now
68:11
and you don’t even have to call it anger
68:13
just called healthy aggression you’re in
68:16
my space get out it’s when you don’t do
68:19
that
68:19
that the unhealthy anger builds up until
68:23
you either totally suppress it which
68:25
gives you get sick or you explode image
68:27
gauging I get fired okay but if you
68:30
actually when the boundary invasion
68:34
happens you stood your ground said no
68:36
sorry this is not then that’s how you
68:39
deal with it that’s what healthy
68:40
aggression actually is okay you see the
68:43
difference now by the way the role of
68:45
anger then healthy anger I’m okay
68:59
you see the headlines freak accident
69:05
kills they’re all healthy angers to
69:11
maintain your boundaries to keep in to
69:14
to keep worthless unhealthy and unwanted
69:16
and unwelcome
69:18
they’re all the emotions in general is
69:22
to keep up with some healthy naina
69:23
welcome and to let in what is desirable
69:26
and and and welcome so somebody else in
69:29
another circumstance you might want them
69:31
to be very close with you so emotions
69:34
keep out what’s unwanted an onion toxic
69:38
allowing was healthy what is the role of
69:41
the immune system it’s the same thing
69:46
now we know that the immune system and a
69:52
hormonal apparatus and the emotional
69:55
apparatus and a nervous system are not
69:58
separate systems if there’s a new
70:01
science that studies the unity Vanessa
70:03
knew I mean maybe fifty years old and
70:06
it’s in it’s called
70:07
psychoneuroimmunology so the study of
70:11
psychology has delineated the actual
70:13
physiological connections between the
70:15
nervous system and the god an emu system
70:18
and the hormonal apparatus
70:21
cardiovascular system which simply means
70:24
the men we suppress any part of it
70:26
including the psychic apparatus we
70:28
actually affecting the other parts as
70:30
well and that’s why it’s so important to
70:33
know the distinction between healthy
70:34
anger and an out the anger because when
70:36
you suppress the unhealthy means
70:37
suppress the healthy anger you’re
70:39
actually affecting every aspect of your
70:41
physiology okay I’ll take one more
70:44
question I’m never sure to take many
70:47
more but which is enough time
70:50
hello yeah in the mid like at the right
70:53
side right your left side sir my left
70:55
side ok ok can you stand up I’m standing
70:59
okay good alright please go ahead thank
71:04
you
71:04
it’s a similar question really but
71:05
around you’re talking about these deep
71:09
very visceral responses like from age
71:13
one type event yeah isn’t it feels isn’t
71:17
there a chance of sort of if you let
71:20
that happen in an environment that can’t
71:21
support it that’s a dangerous thing to
71:23
to risk doing but you you don’t know how
71:27
to sort of train the environment without
71:29
risking that that’s okay we’ll look um
71:33
I’m not talking about necessarily
71:36
expressing your emotions every time for
71:39
example if you’re never having a debate
71:42
and you strongly disagree with me but I
71:45
was standing there with a gun in my hand
71:47
you mean I wish to express the anger you
71:49
are really at that moment you know I’m
71:52
not talking about neccessity expression
71:54
is is discretionary it’s the experience
71:58
of it whether you repress it
72:00
automatically and compulsively and
72:03
whether you keep going back into
72:05
situations where you get triggered in
72:08
significant ways and you have no
72:10
opportunity to deal with it
72:13
that’s the real issue so in a given
72:16
circumstance you may or may not choose
72:18
but I’m talking about choice and the
72:22
question is how much choice do you
72:23
really have when you’re doing this
72:24
automatically and compulsively because
72:26
you program to do that by childhood now
72:30
I’m not saying we shouldn’t be nice to
72:32
people I’m not saying we shouldn’t be
72:34
compassionate unhelpful I mean I
72:36
actually think that human nature is but
72:39
is by its very nature of social and and
72:47
compassionate rather than
72:48
individualistic and aggressive and
72:50
unselfish
72:52
what I’m talking about is how conscious
72:55
are we in other words if I have if I can
72:58
choose to help others I may do so a lot
73:03
of the time but if I’m compulsively
73:06
driven to help others because I want
73:08
them to love me that’s what the problem
73:11
is so I’m not necessarily talking about
73:14
how we express things I’m talking about
73:15
her experience things internally and how
73:18
much choice we actually have over our
73:20
experience that’s what I’m discussing
73:23
here if you all bear with me I’ll take
73:27
one more question and it’ll be it yeah
73:29
wherever the mike is and gosh you know I
73:38
mean I just wish I could spend a day
73:40
because I mean this is really deep stuff
73:41
and and there’s so much more to say
73:43
about it I I hope you I hope you can now
73:47
accept that I’ve given you kind of the
73:49
surface of something yes please go ahead
73:52
I double or I wanted to ask if you can
73:56
talk a little bit about postpartum
73:58
depression depression yeah yeah sure I
74:02
mean although it’s not quite the subject
74:05
tonight but that’s fine
74:07
a depression is something I absolutely
74:09
dealt with in my life and what I’m
74:12
saying to you and this is I’m not gonna
74:14
prove this right now is that virtually
74:16
everything that happens to us later on
74:18
in life begins as a coping mechanism in
74:20
childhood so you know I’ve talked about
74:23
these coping mechanisms to maintain our
74:25
attachment relationships and so as a
74:27
result we suppress ourselves now if you
74:29
look at the word depression itself what
74:31
does it actually mean to depress
74:33
something it means to push it down and
74:37
depression something is pushed down what
74:40
is usually pushed on and depression it’s
74:45
anger and the problem is when we pushed
74:49
on one of our emotions it’s hard to
74:51
experience the others and now there is
74:54
this joyless
74:58
negative hopeless experience of
75:02
depression it does begin as a coping
75:05
mechanism in childhood when the
75:06
environment could not tolerate your
75:08
emotions so you learn to push them down
75:10
and then later on you’ll be diagnosed
75:12
with depression you might ask am I
75:15
saying depression is not physiological
75:16
sure it is but the part of this process
75:22
is that these early experiences don’t
75:24
only affect their emotions they also
75:27
affect our brain physiology so childhood
75:30
stress is actually will have an impact
75:33
on how much serotonin is gonna be
75:35
available in my brain serotonin being
75:38
one of the mood chemicals so when you
75:39
take fluoxetine or prozac you’re
75:42
elevating your serotonin levels now I I
75:44
am my personality kind of a depressive
75:46
so that’s my baseline you might think
75:51
this Jolie’s fellow how could he be
75:52
depressed but your honor that’s gone my
75:55
baseline that’s my default setting less
75:58
and less as I learned to deal with it
76:00
and I’m but I know that I’m challenged
76:04
in terms of serotonin but that does go
76:06
back to early childhood because early
76:09
childhood actually programs the brain
76:11
physiologically and as one becomes more
76:15
self-aware and self-compassionate you
76:19
can reverse that
76:21
so yes the depression also begins as a
76:25
child coping mechanism and the issue in
76:28
depression like in illness in general is
76:30
to become ourselves and with that I
76:33
thank you very much for your attention
76:41
[Applause]
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